16 Apr 2011

Welcome to a new series of interviews with about the busiest man in golf, American course architect Brian Curley – one half of the Schmidt Curley golf course design team.

Aside from the sheer number of clients Schmidt Curley has in China right now, what’s unique about this business is the unprecedented relationship they have with the Chu family of Mission Hills fame. Brian Curley has already been lead architect on 22 Mission Hills courses (10 in Shenzhen, 10 in Haikou, 2 in Kunming), with the promise of at least another 8 to come in the years ahead.

Planet Golf - Which begs the question, how does one extract 22 course design commissions from a single client, and how does an architect attempt to produce quality courses when they need to be completed so quickly?

Brian Curley - First, I think you have to first understand that the 22 courses were built over a 16 year period so it is quite different than commissioning 22 courses at once.  We started with a commitment for two (Faldo and Ozaki) and two more (Els and Vijay) came soon after.  At that point, we had established a great relationship and Mission Hills had enormous trust in me, not only for the golf design but all of their master planning.  I was their set of “Western Eyes” to bring them a vision that was current. 

I would argue that three (Faldo, Ozaki, and Vijay) are very contrasting in style.  The Els is very similar to the Nicklaus, but the Els was made up of remodelled Nicklaus Valley Course holes augmented with an additional eight. They did not want to spend the money to alter the existing holes (done very modestly) so I was obligated to match them in appearance.  At the time it opened, the Faldo Course was proclaimed one of the best in Asia and, to this day, I believe it is strong.  It may not have the look of today’s course of attention but, at that point in time, few courses in the World were done with a “natural or minimalist” mindset, especially in Asia, let alone China.  The course is hugely still today successful and one of the most difficult tee times to arrange.

In about 2002, we were asked to do the five course Dongguan Complex at one time as fast as possible.  It was my intention to do at least one or more of these five very rugged and natural, but upon showing assorted images to the representative Pros, none wanted it.  In fact the Leadbetter and Annika have a similar look because that is what they each wanted.  Duval wanted a course that resembled a Donald Ross/Eastlake style.

The irony is that for years we were behind the curtain with little recognition for having done the work – the Pros got all the attention as “SIGNATURES”.  Now, you want me to shoulder the blame for the courses being similar.  As much as I wanted more variety, I had people to answer to.  There was also the issue that it was a brutal site with massive cuts and fills – we moved almost 60 million meters in 8 months.  Additionally, the master plan was made up of many intertwined holes.  In most multi-course facilities, each course stands alone like pieces of a pizza; this was a bowl of spaghetti.  Trying to coordinate five different architects and their interconnected grading plans and subsequent changes would at the pace we worked would be next to impossible.

I would say this Darius; I have spent time and played golf with you and feel you are very sharp and informed on golf architecture.  Given the opportunity and a good team, you are more than capable of producing an excellent course.  That said, I would venture that had you (or most any architect) been given the same opportunity years ago, pre- “naturalism”, when Fazio Designs ruled, when Asian expectations were what they were, with the desires of Pro Signatures laying out their wishes and faced with a brutal site and a frantic pace, the results would not be that different.  Each course is fairly well representative of what was happening in architecture at the time.

Jack recently visited Mission Hills and, upon touring his World Cup course was asked what he thought of it.  “Nice course considering the time it was built” was his reply.  When asked to further explain, he said he would “blow it up” as it was “not what they did now.”

Obviously, the intent is to build a course that is altered as little as possible over time, yet, the classic courses of the World have certainly been tweaked and most originally occurred on a friendly terrain, perhaps taking years to reach maturity.

Looking at construction sequence photos gives someone a real taste of what we were up against on a short timeline.

In Haikou, it is all us, like it or not.  At the same time, as much as I would have liked each and every course “natural” (as is the case at Bandon Dunes) I knew that the market wanted more variety including a standard, modern, design.  The result is, I believe, the most wildly varied courses of any multi-course project in the World; nothing comes close.  From the natural look of Lava Fields and Blackstone, to a Sandbelt look, early Golden Age, modern, Parkland, Sand dunes, and an over the top Pete Dye-ish course.  Coming soon is the Icon Course which will be the wildest thing ever done; almost, full – scale mini – golf.  With the marketplace looking for variety, purists may cringe but I anticipate it will be madly popular and I am looking forward to pushing the “fun” buttons.

Once again, at Haikou I did all the master planning.  In China, you must constantly be changing plans as property limits change, available land changes with new designations, etc.  The results are often a domino of changes affecting more than one course.  Rather than Mission Hills having to deal with multiple architects, I do it all – and quickly.

I think it is fair to say that some courses have received more time than others but only because some received an enormous amount.  I would say I spent 100 days on Blackstone as it was the big Tournament Course with a great future of world-class events and would be under a microscope for years to come.

I know for a fact that whichever course I may have spent less time on still received much more time on site than most architects working in China today spend on their courses.  I hear of architects making site visits every 3 or 4 months.  I was on site every month for a week or more.

I have never had a problem with working quickly.  We have an excellent team and it takes confidence to move on.  I would venture I could play any given course you feel received “proper” construction time and be equally critical or question it’s details or lack there of.  If you feel that way about some of our work, so be it.  There are a lot of choices in the golf market and Mission Hills is massively successful – we must be doing something right.

I do know that few, if any, architects would have been able to do all we did from master planning, to course design, to construction management, to involvement with seemingly every bit of maintenance and operations on two very difficult properties at the pace we did.

Mission Hills Shenzhen turned some of the least desirable land in China into a World renowned project that sells thousands of memberships and real estate at Aspen prices.

I will take that as a success and, if you feel the courses fail to always rise to the challenge, so be it.

 

PG - The last five courses at Mission Hills Shenzhen were completed in around two years, and I believe the first 8 or 9 at Haikou were built almost as quickly. Is this correct, and how difficult logistically was it to oversee construction of so many courses at once?

BC - Basically, yes – each facility was built on about that timeline.  Logistically they were quite different – mainly in that the Shenzhen/Dongguan complex began with a massive rough grading effort by a contractor that was just moving dirt.  As each hole was built somewhat to plan, the “golf” process would take over.

In Haikou, we cleared vegetation to see what we had, then began capping with good soil.  The contractor effort was merely hauling dirt to pre-determined locations – the initial efforts were more about working with what was there rather than beating the property into something that resembled a golf scape.

 

PG - As you know, I’ve visited the Haikou resort twice now and believe the standard of golf available is significantly higher than at Shenzhen. How do you compare the two resorts, and perhaps the differences between the golf courses at each venue?

BC - In comparing the two facilities, the obvious difference is the land we worked with.  Shenzhen/ Dongguan started with a brutal piece of land relatively small in scale and having some odd property lines.  It needed drastic earth moving to get to a result that some may claim may still be overly severe.  Haikou is difficult with the lava rock but the basic topo is very golf-friendly; fairly flat with modest movement.  I doubt you will find many top 100 sites with anything near the severe topo of Shenzhen/Dongguan.  Along with severe topo comes long green to tee connections and other issues not found on traditional courses designed to be walked.  You will lose many purists on that alone.

 

PG - Haikou is built almost completely on top of volcanic lava rock, which adds a dramatic visual to off-fairway areas but must have made construction quite challenging. Was it more difficult to build on lava rock or blast away a mountain and create those final courses at Dongguan?

BC - I would say it is less time consuming as a designer to “blast away” as you say – you do a grading plan focusing on creating landing areas and say “call me” when you get close to done.  On the lava, you must slowly peel back the layers hole by hole, feature by feature so it is imperative that you spend a great deal of time on site.  On the big dirt moves, you are just trying to make playable grades with enough width.  From there you begin to work with what you have; you rarely are exact because the combination of massive cuts and bad topo will often lead to you to a rough graded result that is close but quite different.  In an odd twist, I “blast away” and from there, begin to design to what you have been dealt, much in the way a “minimalist” would work with the given land.  So, it is a strange combination of a massive plan process that morphs into a lay-of-the-land mentality.  You begin with a “creative” mindset and venture into an “adaptive” mindset.

 

PG - Let’s talk specifically about the Lava Fields course, which I rate presently as the best in China. Would it be fair to say that you put more time and energy into getting Lava Fields right than some of the other layouts in Haikou?

BC - Ironically, I would say that I spent no more time on Lava Fields than I did on many of the others.  I spent an enormous amount of time on Blackstone but there were many more issues there including the desire to save as many trees as possible and trying to avoid a manufactured look in dealing with drainage.  I think it helped that we “perfected our art” so to speak on Blackstone prior to moving to Lava Fields so the team was hitting on all cylinders in regards to the basic design rules:

1.     Surface Flow/no catch basins

2.     Irregular bunker lines

3.     Irregular turf lines

4.     Create Fall through bunkers (not flat bottomed)

5.     Transitional edges at the bunkers

6.     Landforms not mounds

7.     Never grass anything “up” but put in rock or groundcover (never do grass mounds)

8.     Black asphalt cart paths to match the lava stone

9.     Wide/broad turf especially in main landing areas to create options of play

I think much of the appeal with Lava Fields is the wide-open terrain, the Bahia grass edges and the darker sand cover (as opposed to the bright white sand at Blackstone).  Lava Fields also only has one water feature.  Overall, Lava Fields has much more of an open feel that allows you to swing away as opposed to threading a needle.

 

PG - Thinking outside China for a moment, do you think Lava Fields would be received more warmly from westerners if it weren’t part of a golfing mega-complex?

BC - I do agree that if the course were not part of a mega complex it would receive more attention.  That is the problem with being big as the scale can overshadow the quality.  When we first entertained the “Guinness World Record” marketing angle, the pros and cons were weighed.  I think it is fine to emphasize the numbers, but in the process focus shifts away from the details. It does help to be part of a resort complex as thousands of different golfers will experience it over time.  Bandon Dunes would receive much less attention if it were a private club.

 

PG - Blackstone is the other obvious standout at Mission Hills Haikou, and they share similarities in terms of scale, green complexes and bunker styles. Was it your aim with Lava Fields to have a second strong championship test to back-up the Blackstone layout?

BC - Yes.  It was assumed that Lava Fields would someday hold events.  At the same time I didn’t want to incorporate massive gallery mounds in anticipation of some event that may or may not happen and have to maintain those areas for years to come.  Being in an island, the chance of any large galleries is slim and Blackstone can handle the bigger events.  If needed, rock areas on Lava Fields can easily and quickly be converted to gallery areas.

 

PG - Finally, you know my view that many of the other courses at Haikou could have been improved were the same level of care given them as given to Lava Fields. I wonder, is there anything on this course (Lave Fields) that you felt could have or should have been done better?

BC - I am sorry if you feel the other courses did not receive the same attention but it is not the case at all Lava Fields, as I said, followed Blackstone as far as the finish work is concerned and the concepts were easily applied.  Some courses (such as Sandbelt Trails) had land issues at times and had a start/stop construction schedule.  I strongly believe that each course received its fair share of attention, especially as we “shifted gears” in establishing newer/different looks.  It could be that our intentions to create some of the courses as more user friendly with less demanding scorecards translates into an overall feel of a slightly lesser experience in your mind.  You also have seen and received the courses in their embryonic stages and a lot of detail work is still being done – everything from steps to walkways to stonewalls and landscaping.  The southern courses were pushed to quickly open, largely for political reasons and much of the finishing touches are still underway.  The details that make Blackstone and Lava Fields shine will come in time.

 

PG - One final one sorry – why are there so many darn bunkers on that 14th hole? (see pic)

 

 

BC - As far as the 14th, there was ample width and I really felt the centreline bunker (one of my favourites) was needed.  The cluster of bunkers right were not there originally.  I felt there was too much room if the area was turf and, if in tall Bahia, there was too much lost ball issue.  With bunkers you can hit it, find it, and hit it again.  Perhaps it is a bit much but, then again, plenty of great holes feature plenty of hazards.  There is a lot of blue from tee to green on the 18th at Pebble Beach.  (Spoken from experience!)

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